Another Url, Another Planet

This is my experience of Setanta Sports, posted here for amusement and catharsis. If it helps anyone else or contributes to their ultimate demise in any small way, then so much the better!

I subscribed in November 2007 to watch occasional United games. Everything was pretty much ok and I got to see United play most of the crappier teams in the Premier League once or twice a month. I paid by Direct Debit every month.

Setanta Sports To: Customer Complaints PO Box 800 Kirkaldy, KY2 6WD Dear Sir/Madam, Viewing card No. xxxxxxxxxxxxx I spoke to one of your telephone customer services operators on 19 July regarding the loss of my Setanta Sports service on my Freeview box. I explained that my subscription to Setanta is based purely on being able to watch Manchester United games every month, so I was most disappointed to come home on that Saturday afternoon to find that the recording I had set up for their friendly game against a South African team had failed and that I was unable even to watch the last half an hour of the game live because my service was “scrambled”. I pay my subscription by direct debit every month and this is completely unacceptable service. I asked for a refund for July and reimbursement for August as compensation for missing this game. I was told that my complaint would be passed on to the manager and that he would contact me the next week. Three weeks on and I have heard nothing. My wife finds it hard enough to tolerate me watching football as it is let alone paying £10.99 a month not to watch it! It’s bad enough that Setanta has such a bad picture quality compared to Freeview and Sky, but to top this off with such a lack of care for your paying customers is really too much. Please contact me to explain what you intend to do to put this matter right and to keep one of your “valued” customers. Yours sincerely, David Marsden

Nothing happened…. So I emailed it, too:

Email follow-up to customerservices@setanta.com and BCC’d to their Chief Execs: Telephone complaint and follow up letter to customer services not responded to Please see attached. [Original complaint letter.] After much Googling to find your emails in the hope of some accountability and actual customer care I expect a swift response.

Finally, 5 weeks after my initial telephone complaint I got a response:

Dear Mr. Marsden I am writing in reference to the email you sent on the 23rd August 2008 regarding technical issues when watching Setanta Sports on your freeviewbox. We don’t ordinarily refund where your DTR did not work. Your freeviewbox appears to be the issue so you will have to involve the manufacturer as it isn’t a problem with the broadcasting as the same problem is likely to occur again. If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us again on the email address supplied and we will get back to you with a prompt response. Yours sincerely Escalations Department Setanta Sports

No apology.

No investigation.

Assumption without any evidence that the problem lies with my Freeview box.

We went on to have a little dialogue:

Firstly, I do not believe there is any problem with my Freeview box – what makes you think this is the problem? Certainly, when I called Setanta Customer Services the operator was able to fix the problem from your end and did not suggest any problem with my Freeview box. Secondly, even if this was the problem, this still does not explain why the operator I spoke to referred my complaint to his manager and told me that he would contact me, which he didn’t, or that no one bothered to respond to my letter. Only several weeks later when I copy in your Chief Execs do I get your response.

I would assume that there is a problem with the freeviewbox because there are no issues with the broadcasting. Could you explain in detail how the problem was fixed at our end when you phoned customer services and if known by which agent as this will be investigated internally? In addition please accept my apologies for the delay in our response and be assured that the advice I am giving has been supplied by my manager as your complaint has reached our escalations department. Kind Regards Escalations Department Setanta Sports

My freeview box works fine and always has done. It was working with Setanta before I went out and set it to record the programme. I regularly watch the channel (even non-Man Utd games) and only once previously have I had – what I assume – was the same problem, fixed in the same way. The box and channel have been working perfectly, since, too. I cannot remember the name of the agent as it was so long ago. As far as I can remember, the agent said he would do something at his end and asked me to switch my box off and on again (which I had tried before calling) and to wait for 15 minutes. He even apologised for the break in transmission, which led me to assume that it was a problem at Setanta’s end. Your agent was very helpful and got the channel working again.

In that case there are many mitigating factors including weather conditions that could have jeopardised your viewing on that particular day that Setanta are not liable for. Also when we resend the signal every month if the customer does not have their freeviewbox on standby at that time it may not receive the signal which is why the agent told you to turn your box off and on again so that he could re-send the signal.

You’re trying to tell me that I pay for a premium channel and you cannot guarantee a signal? I don’t have any problems with any of the free channels. How can this be? And all your subscribers are supposed never to switch off their box for fear of missing the signal? Very environmentally-friendly, not to mention a possible fire hazard and increasing the size of everyone’s electricity bills! Thanks for your belated responses to my complaint. I do not feel that you have resolved it satisfactorily at all. In fact, I’m now seriously considering cancelling my subscription and moving to Sky. At least I will get the big games not their leftovers and a decent picture, too!

to: matthew.kemp@setanta.com leonard.ryan@setanta.com Michael.ORourke@setanta.com michael.bucks@setanta.com roger.hall@setanta.com Dear Sirs, I’m writing to you again (original email attached) as I feel very angry and dissatisfied with the service I have paid for, but not received, and the lack of customer care I feel I have received in dealing with my complaint despite being a loyal customer now since December 2007. I feel that I’ve gone as far as I can with your nameless escalations correspondent, [above]. I would like one of you to review my complaint and to respond directly. On your website you quite clearly advertise how simple it is to set up Setanta on Freeview and then sit back and relax watching my favourite sport. This is what I have been able to do for the most part. Only on two occasions during this time have I been unable to do so due to the service being “scrambled” (presumably meaning the encryption signal) and on each occasion I was easily able to phone customer services and have an agent resend what I now realise is the activation signal. The first time must have been shortly after I signed up and I guess I was prepared to accept some teething troubles with a new service. I didn’t think any more of it and did not complain. The second time, in July, was different as you will no doubt have read in my letter, attached. You may argue like your escalations person that I switched off my Freeview box, therefore invalidating the terms and conditions, and I suppose you are right, strictly speaking. However, this does not seem fair to me, still, or a true reflection of how you advertise the ease of set up and use. Furthermore, if switching off the Freeview box really was the cause of my loss of signal then this would have happened much more often as my wife switches it off every day and night when it is not in use. But then if we look closely at your terms and conditions, what they seem to say is that you can provide whatever service you like and there is nothing I can do about it. I signed up, you take my money and then I get whatever you decide to give me! Why do you bother at all? It seems like you are well covered there, except that again it does not seem to be a fair or a true reflection of the service you advertise. All that I am asking for is to receive the advertised service that I pay for and to be treated as a valued customer when I have a complaint. I haven’t received the service as advertised (for whatever reason) and my complaints were ignored and then dismissed without any proper and fair investigation. Customer care, is in my opinion, severely lacking. Yours sincerely, David Marsden

from Michael Bucks to David Marsden subject Read: [Fwd: RE: Setanta Sports] Your message was read on Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:25

Phone call to me from Laura re: letter of 8 August. Laura 32896 (she declined to giver her surname and said that she could be identified by her number) was quite aggressive. Her tactic was to insist and persuade me that it was all my fault and that there was nothing I or Setanta could do about it. In spite of this she encouraged me to go ahead and write to their Newry refunds department so that they could write back to me and tell me I couldn’t have a refund. I asked her why I would want to do that? We agreed that our conversation had gone as far as it could.

from Michael O’Rourke to David Marsden cc Arthur Blake subject RE: [Fwd: RE: Setanta Sports] David I will check into the situation Your sincerely Michael

from Setanta Customer Services subject RE: Dear Mr. Marsden Thank you for your e-mail. Due to exceptional demand for the Setanta Sports package, we have received a high volume of customer enquiries by e-mail and are therefore unable to reply within our usual timescales. We are working hard to ensure that we respond to you as soon as we can. If you are experiencing viewing problems, please try the procedure outlined below [note that I made some of these up myself and that these are not all official Setanta Sports instructions and I take no responsibility if you follow these instructions and end up like me unsubscribing from Setanta Sports and instead watching all the Premier League games for free online]: 1) Ensure your viewing card is correctly inserted. 2) You know where to stick it, right? 3) Go to Channel 5 or 34. 4) It doesn’t really matter and we don’t care either way. 5) Re-scan your digibox to find all available channels. 6) Even if Setanta Sports is available, we still might not let you watch it. 7) Leave the system for 30 minutes. 8) Haha. Leave the system. Nice one! 9) Miss the programme you want to watch. 10) Subscribe to Sky or Google how to watch Premier league for free online. 11) Unplug the digibox and wait 15 seconds before powering the box on again. 12) Perform a dance and chant an incantation to the gods. 13) Power on your digibox and go to channel 34. To request a refund, please send a written request outlining your eligibility for refund and including a bank statement highlighting the charges you wish refunded, to: Setanta Sports PO BOX 182 The Quays Newry Co. Down BT35 5AT Yours sincerely Seán Rodgers Customer Services

from David Marsden to Michael O’Rourke cc Arthur Blake subject Re: [Fwd: RE: Setanta Sports] mailed-by gmail.com Thanks, Michael. How are you getting along with this? The only “response” I’ve had is what appears to be an automated email on 9 September [see above]. …. Now, I’d be interested in claiming a refund as I’ve already outlined in my letter of complaint many weeks ago. I don’t really see why I should have to write to Newry to do it again, also bearing in mind the rather unhelpful and frankly disappointing telephone call I received on 28 August from Laura 32896 (your staff have numbers, but not surnames!) “in response to my email”, although which email she couldn’t or wouldn’t say. Laura advised me to write to Newry for a refund, too, although she also insisted that definitely would not get a refund, so I decided not to bother with that futile exercise. As I explained to her, I’m not a masochist, just a paying Setanta customer! I realise that you must be inundated with similar complaints as a quick search on the internet shows that there are seemingly hundreds if not thousands of unhappy customers trying to cancel or claim refunds for lack of service like me. I’m pleased to see that Setanta has actually listened to some of these complaints and now revised its cancellation policy, so I would think that it is only fair and reasonable to expect the same for your refunds policy, too. Many thanks, David

from David Marsden to requests@setanta.com cc Michael O’Rourke , Arthur Blake subject Fwd: [Fwd: RE: Setanta Sports] Please cancel my account.

from Michael O’Rourke to David Marsden , requests@setanta.com cc Arthur Blake subject RE: [Fwd: RE: Setanta Sports] Will do. Arthur please cancel his account

Finally, finally an apology!

from Escalations subject Re:Setanta Sports Dear Mr. Marsden Please be advised that your account has been cancelled with immediate effect at your request and you will not be debited any subsequent monies by us. I am sorry that you have had a less than favourable experience with our company and assure you that we are striving to deliver the best service that we can to every customer. Best regards Fionnuala Metcalfe Escalations Officer SETANTA SPORTS

I didn't have any particularly strong feelings about London Mayor Boris YeltsinJohnson's Barmy Booze Ban on public transport, which came into effect on 1 June this year. I don't drink alcohol on Tubes and buses, mainly because they don't have toilets.

I do, however, enjoy an occasional can of Stella on my way home from work on the overground train and I don't see anything wrong with that. And Boris's Barmy Booze Ban doesn't cover the overground trains run by Network Rail.

Or does it?

I decided to find out.

Date: 15 September

To: queries@heathrowconnect.com

Subject: Alcohol Policy

Hello, Please tell me what is your alcohol policy (if you have one)? - for example, is it ok to drink a single can of beer on my way home from work from Paddington to Southall in order to make the unpleasant journey on a packed commuter train more bearable? If not, why not? Please also direct me to the page on your website which makes your alcohol policy (if you have one) clear and also the law or bye-law that applies to your policy (if you have one). I look forward to hearing from you. Many thanks,

First response comes from First Great Western, who obviously manage the Heathrow Connect service:

Date: 18 September From: FGW Customer Relations <fgw.feedback@firstgroup.com> Subject: Alcohol Policy Dear Mr Marsden Thank you for your email of 16 September 2008 regarding our alcohol policy. I can confirm we do have a policy in place. Please find below a copy of our policy: Intoxication and possession of intoxicating liquor (1) No person shall enter or remain on the railway where such person is unfit to enter or remain on the railway as a result of being in a state of intoxication. (2) Where reasonable notice is, or has been, given prohibiting intoxicating liquor on any train service, no person shall have any intoxicating liquor with him on it, or attempt to enter such a train with intoxicating liquor with him. (3) Where an authorised person reasonably believes that any person is unfit to enter or remain on the railway, or has with him intoxicating liquor contrary to Byelaw 4(2), an authorised person may: (i) require him to leave the railway; and (ii) prevent him entering or remaining on the railway until an authorised person is satisfied that he has no intoxicating liquor with him and/or is no longer in an unfit condition. We do sell alcohol on our services, which you can purchase. I hope this information helps. Thank you for contacting us. Yours sincerely Bernice [Surname removed for privacy] Customer Services Advisor

Well, this seems to say that it's not ok to be drunk on a train, which is fair enough. But it didn't quite satisfy me that it's ok to have a single can of beer:

Thanks for your very helpful response, Bernice. However, I'm still not clear as to where I stand, or sit, regarding my original question:

Is it ok to drink a single can of beer on my way home from work from Paddington to Southall in order to make the unpleasant journey on a packed commuter train more bearable? If not, why not?

If you can give me a specific answer to this question, I will be very grateful. Kind regards, David

Two days later I got quite different response, however: Thank you for your email of 18 September 2008 regarding the response that you received from my colleague. I can confirm that you are allowed to consume alcohol on-board our services as long as it is purchased from the buffet car or trolley service on the train, it is against railway bylaws to bring your own alcohol onto train services. Thank you again for contacting First Great Western. Yours sincerely Gareth [Surname removed for privacy] Customer Services Advisor

Damn! This is bad news. But wait. "... it is against railway bylaws to bring your own alcohol onto train services." Now, I really ought to check this out, too.

Railways Act 1993 - nothing about drinking at all that I can see. Railway Byelaws (PDF) - same as the FGW Policy quoted by Bernice, lots about all kinds of mildly anti-social behaviour and a requiring people to queue(!), but nothing about forbidding me from taking a can of Stella bought at the station on to the train.

Hmmm...

Hi Gareth, Thanks for you reply. Please tell me which railway bye-law stipulates that I can't take alcohol on to a train.

Date: 25 September Dear Mr Marsden Thank you for your email of 21 September 2008 addressed to Gareth. I have now had the opportunity to review this case and it appears that there has been some confusion with the information provided by my colleague. I can confirm as per the first response you were sent alcohol is permitted on board our services and you are permitted to take alcohol onto our services where a service has not been advertised in advance as "dry" i.e. no alcohol allowed. Services are generally only run as dry before and after sporting events on our network. I can therefore confirm that the information provided by Gareth was incorrect and I have taken this up with him directly as a training issue. Thank you once again for getting in touch and I trust I have clarified the situation. Yours sincerely Sue [Surname removed for privacy] Customer Services Team Manager

My emphasis.

Victory for common sense and the law and all the peaceful drinkers out there!